Argumentative: ASD Symptom

This is another big sign that someone is on the autistic spectrum, even if only mildly. I think there are several reasons that people with ASD will regularly argue with others.

Their lack of perception will prevent them from recognising when and where is not the right time and place to get into an argument.

They have an inability to gauge possible outcomes, or even think of any consequencies at all. AKA Foot-in-Mouth syndrome. Most people who argue a lot do not think first how the other person will react. If they did stop to think, they often would bite their tongue.

People with aspergers in particular can be exceptionally pedantic and will often argue over subjects that seem important to them, but to everyone else appear to be very petty things.

When a heated argument takes place, emotions are high and control is lost. We have all witnessed people who continue arguing about the same subject, repeating themselves and just shouting over the other person. They each have no interest in listening; only shouting. Prolonged arguments of this nature are likely to be between two people with aspergers and/or ADHD.

Both types of people need to be heard and get extremely frustrated and hurt when they are not heard or respected. They will both want to have the last word, and get even more angry when their last comment has not resulted in shutting the other person up. What happens next is embarrassing, as each party sinks further and further into petty anarchy.

Sometimes these arguments need not involve shouting, but you can still sense the aggression and anger through snide comments and petty slanging matches. One example of this where I believe both parties have Asperger Syndrome, was one of the many arguments that took place between actor Anthony Cotton and sportswoman Fatima Whitbread while on the TV show “I’m a Celebrity; Get Me Out of Here” in 2011.

Because they both wanted to take control and had different ideas of the best way to do things, they clashed with each other. Fatima seemed to lack perception more than Anthony, and was hopeless at gauging the mood in the camp, while Anthony got stressed out very easily and let Fatima get to him. Anthony was more insightful but could still not resist having the last word in an argument. As they were both guilty of this, it would seem like an argument was coming to an end, but then one would make a “final” quip; prompting the other to do the same. And on and on it went.

I’ll try and find a better video to demonstrate this. I can’t find a video containing an actual proper argument between Anthony and Fatima at the moment, but from 3:00 – 6:00 in the above video, you can get a sense of how they are both feeling.

I felt sorry for them both, as I knew how difficult it was to be in a situation where you cannot be understood. But being a viewer, it was easy to see how these arguments could have been avoided by not letting the other person get to them, and to let the other person have the last word and just agree with them, to end the confrontation. That, of course, is easier said than done though, and the condensing of 24 hours into 45 minutes cannot truly portray to the viewer how participants are really feeling.

Another thing ASD sufferers who are argumentative are often guilty of, is failing to recognise that their opinions are just that; opinions – and not fact. Culprits will typically talk down to the other person in a tone that suggests they themselves are right all the time, and they don’t appear to question that they could be wrong.

Sometimes they are not as arrogant as they appear. They might be fully aware that their opinions are not facts, but sadly the way they communicate will often still make them appear that way.

When a person with Aspergers argues with a neurotypical person, the aspie will almost always win the argument or at least have the last word, because their nature predicts they will get their own way, more often than not. The other person will back down out if sheer exasperation, for a bit of peace. But two aspies would probably fight to the death if they could.

People  who are known for arguing most often fall into the category “Unable to Handle Stress” as well. While we all handle stress differently, those on the autistic spectrum get a lot more anxious than others. Even when they themselves think they are having a civilized discussion or debate, others will often see them as being confrontational and not letting go of a subject that could easily be dropped. It is linked to fragile egoes too, because the argumentative party will not be able to allow the other guy to win. The fact they see the conversation as a battleground in itself, is due to the fact that they are over-emotional but instead of being tearful, they get angry.

All the arguments, confrontations and outbursts I have found myself in (*Notice that? “found myself in”; not “started” – as if I was the innocent party!*) have always, without fail, been when I have been behind on my sleep. This is why I try to stick to a strict routine, because although everyone functions better when they are not tired, it is essential for people on the autistic spectrum to have a regular, healthy sleep pattern, simply to function as normally as possible. So many of us are unaware or forget how important this is.

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10 Responses to Argumentative: ASD Symptom

  1. SlpRbt says:

    Sorry for leaving comments here and there, I would write a proper e-mail if I could, but my mind is flying everywhere at the moment. I really want to congratulate you for finding out so much about yourself, and thinking of the “impossible”, creating this blog to share your thoughts.

    Nothing is impossible in my mind, and I want to share my own opinion. When I talked to people about some of my conditions (like I may have BPD, or aspergers, or whatever it is I thought I had), they were alarmed, disconcerted, and urged me to find medical help.

    People were “helpless” and they thought an expert could’ve done better when I only wanted an open, understanding listener. I have always wanted help, but I don’t trust the doctors. I know how this world works, and once you’re labeled “insane” it will not be possible for others to trust you.

    Anyway, the main point is, I asked these people who asked me to get help a rhetoric question, and answered my own doubt why I don’t get help when I really needed it this way:
    The reason that I don’t trust experts is, why are experts experts? Except that they have read more than we did, had perhaps more interactions with various “patients”, they may understand a certain aspects of various different types of disorders, but “some of them experts” will always lack the compassion and empathy to know what it is like to actually have the conditions that people have or symptoms that “patients” are exhibiting.

    I started reading because I thought there was no one who was going to know me better than I do myself and love myself more. It was perhaps the best decision I could’ve made all of my life. I wish I can share with others how good it feels to finally cut yourself some slack and not take everyone else’s opinion, especially those who don’t understand you, so seriously as the only right answers.

    I’d to thank you again for doing all your hard work. Please let me know also if you agree or disagree with some of my thoughts at my e-mail if you have the time. Thanks!

    • Autastic says:

      Thank you for your comments on my blog and your kind words. I think your comments are interesting and I do agree with you about doctors and so-called experts. No-one can know everything, but some people certainly think they do! I appreciate you taking the time to write.

      Take care and Happy New Year

  2. BC says:

    I’ve been married to a man for over a decade and I now realize he is very likely an Aspie. All this time I’ve wanted to divorce this odd, argumentative, uncooperative, oppositional, negative, critical, intolerant, emotionally immature , childish and often highly unpleasant man. But I’d stay because he’s brilliant, incredibly talented, versatile, funny, loves animals and science and psychology like I do and I’m dysfunctional and co-dependent anyway. I couldn’t understand why he was so inept at flirting and acted so strange when I’d initiate affection and sex yet he’s a skillful lover once you get past his oddness and initial objections. He would lash out at people and be a jerk and then later his version would have the other person attacking him. He denies saying and doing things. He tries to tell me the problem is not him or his behavior, it’s my perceptions. Why is he so wonderful when he’s good and so horrifying when he’s bad? Then I discovered sites like this one.

    NOW, my question is, do I tell him what I think I know and how do I do it? He’s a software engineer and always finding some interesting article on the web. Several years ago he took the AS test “for fun” and sent me the link to take it. He said he scored higher than the average male. I scored higher than the average female. While this new knowledge just may save our marriage because I do feel some relief that he isn’t just a jerk with major psych issues, I feel like I need to be able to discuss it with him. My guess is he will be VERY defensive, as usual and get angry, deflect it, say I’m again trying to say something is wrong with him (one counselor told me he’s like a narcissist and that came out in an argument).

    Any advice on how to broach the subject with an Aspie? I have an article that suggests a link between engineers, intoverts and Asperger’s, I’ve though of just casually sending it (we trade articles all the time)…?

    • Autastic says:

      Hi, thanks a lot for your comment. That’s a tough one. I would be inclined, like you say, to casually send the article, then ask him what he thinks. If he dismisses the idea, that might mean he would not react well to your theory that he is most likely an aspie.

      The person you are describing is just like a friend of mine for many years, who often used to exasperate me and I have dumped other friends for less. But he is also a very honest, kind and talented person, so I know what you mean. Every time he says something insensitive now, I don’t get wound up like I used to, because I know he can’t help it. But I have chosen not to tell him that I’m certain he has Aspergers, because he would be the same. He would get all defensive and take it as an insult, when actually it is quite a big compliment. Aspies are nearly always above-average intelligence, often creative artists or sometimes technically brilliant nerds/engineers!

      So I chickened out of telling my friend, but then again I don’t have to live with him. I doubt it would be as easy to stay diplomatic if it were a partner. But even if your husband does react badly, that might only be the initial shock. If he has an interest in psychology, he might be more open to the idea over time. Then it might prove to be the best thing that happened.

      Good luck!

    • RS says:

      Hi,

      Thanks for your comment. Please can you tell me how that worked out. I am in exactly the same situation and on the verge of leaving my strange, funny amazing man who just will argue over absolutely anything, even that he’s not arguing! I try to see the funny side but it’s draining sometimes and my health suffers each time as it’s quite hard.

  3. Las20 says:

    Hi, thank you for this article I found it very interesting.

    I have an eleven year old son who has autism and ADHD. One of the the major ongoing issues we have is his argumentative nature. He cannot see that he should speak respectfully to his parents and not raise his voice. He will argue with us the same as he might with his peers and when we try to explain to him that he can’t speak to us in that way he will argue that he has a right to defend himself. You mentioned them liking the last word and that is so true, it’s almost like he just physically cannot stop himself saying something even when he has been told not to say another word he’ll have to say “fine” or something similar. Unfortunately my husband is a bit like him so the two of them arguing can be pretty explosive and go on and on, its draining for me to listen to and even gets my younger son down too. I try to keep in my mind how confusing I find him is likely the same way he feels about us but it’s not easy. He gets extremely frustrated and feels everyone is against him and no one is listening to him, even though he has said his piece if we don’t agree he will shout and cry that we’re not letting him explain. It’s like he needs to “explain” until we agree he is right even if he isn’t. These outbursts can happen once a day or several times a day and it gets everyone down, my husband and I often argue over the children and our different approach to discipline which puts a strain on our marriage. Really I’m wondering if you have any advise on how to handle the argumentative nature? I try to walk away but he will follow me and go on and on until I agree with him. Many thanks!

    • Autastic says:

      Hi Las20, thank you for your story.

      It must be very hard for you and your husband to communicate with your son. My heart goes out to you.

      While there is no quick fix, there are some little things you can do in order to ease the situation. You are right, in that he should not talk to his parents like that. But it takes a lot of patience to fix the problem. A neurotypical person will know that people in authority need to be spoken to with respect. But with ASD and ADHD children, they cannot differentiate between ranks of people. That is the reason your son is talking to you in the same manner as he does with his peers. They have an inbuilt sense of justice, and inherently believe all people are equal and they treat as they find, whether it’s a friend, a shop assistant, a parent, a teacher or the Queen! They will treat them the same way they believe they are being treated by the other person. That’s not to say they are right, of course. And they need to believe they are respected first, before they will respect others. Parents and teachers traditionally believe children should respect them first and foremost. And will often use strict discipline to create fear in order for the child to comply. But those forceful methods have proven to exacerbate the situation. With your son, he needs to feel respected by you, before you can begin to improve your commuication.

      So if you prevent your son from doing something he wants to do, for example, he might feel that you are disrespecting him. And this could lead to the bad attitude and explosive arguments.

      One way to get him on your side could be to take time to explain to him in a friendly and grown up way, every aspect of why you have made your decision, ensuring he understands every step. Perhaps you won’t let him go on a trip, because funds are tight, or if you do, then your other kids will want the same treatment and you can’t afford to do it for everyone.

      Most parents would simply refuse to let them go, and the child would inevitably think the parents are just being difficult. But situations like this are rarely that simple. Even if you wrote a 1000 word letter explaining why you came to that decision, it still might not cover everything. But I would recommend you do tell your son all that information. Yes, I would recommend you speak the way you would speak to another adult. But that’s the beauty of this method. He will see that you have taken time to explain to him all the facts, without talking down to him, and he will feel respected. Once you’ve established a friendly conversation, and he disagrees with something, ask him in a non-confrontational way if he can think of a different win-win scenario. Keep pausing and asking if he can see your point of view. That will help him know you care about his feelings.

      This method alone is unlikely to work, as he has most likely already formed the incorrect belief that you and he are on opposing sides. So it’s the little things you do every day that will make him see that you do love him, and are on his side. I know it’s not easy, especially if you both work, but if you can both spend quality time with him, and also separately, each provide him with one-on-one time, and take an active interest in what he likes to do, he will feel that he is being listened to. Play games, be creative, and even let him be in charge of a set task or game (then he can see how being the boss isn’t always that easy!)

      Ask him lots of questions about his interests, joke about them with him over dinner, and ensure that this positive interaction makes up at least 50% of all your dialogue with him. He will naturally feel resentment towards you if most dialogue is him being reprimanded or disciplined.

      You say the situation at the moment is “draining” for your family. Don’t be afraid to confide this information to him and let him know you are human. Also remind him that his behaviour affects his younger brother too, and how would he feel if he were him? He will trust you more if you are open with him. Compare this draining feeling to him, with something he feels that is similar, such as extreme tiredness. Example: “The other day you were shouting down from your bedroom because you were exhausted after your hectic day and refused to do the chore we asked you to – well that’s how your Dad and I felt today. Imagine feeling that exhausted and wanting to chill in front of the TV, but you won’t stop arguing with us. Can you understand why that would make us feel grumpy? And how that isn’t really very fair?”

      When he says he has a right to defend himself, he’s right; he does. But so do you! The less he sees your conversations as a battleground, the less he will feel that he needs to defend himself.

      Him saying his piece until you agree with him demonstrates how he is unable to see your point of view at the moment. Once he feels that you do hear and respect him, he will hopefully be more open to listening to you.

      Good luck

  4. Crystal says:

    My husband will argue and threaten Devorce over the littlest things I.e kids winning fish at the fair, with a goldfish bowl, and I’m in the wrong for letting them bring them home I’m the disrespectful one and I’m stupid !!! He works Shifts whilst I have to get up for work at 5am but it’s my fault that he wakes me up by coming to bed with a bowl of cereal or similar and putting the tv on at 2am, even though theres one downstairs and I get called everything under the sun, the tv remote gets thrown across the room because I dared to raise my voice after asking 10 times for the tv to be turned off and I’m the one who speaks disrespectfuly to him even though I’m a cunt bitch etc and the next day he’ll refuse to talk to me, I just want to forget about it and move on but he will continually state I’m the one to blame and I should apologise even though he knows I have a sleeping disorder, which according to him I don’t, but I’m currently on meds to help me sleep I finally nod between 10-12am for him to wake me up but he doesn’t see this as an issue I then struggle for hours to get to sleep again then my alarm goes off I just don’t know how much longer I can take this for!!!! Is this a sign of asperges ?

  5. Goldielocks says:

    Crystal: I empathise and sympathise so much! My partner was diagnosed with Aspergers, ADHD and several other mental health conditions several years ago and you could be describing him in your post. Your husband shows a complete lack of empathy for you and your situation when you are trying to sleep and that, in my experience, is certainly an Aspergers trait. His angry outburst can also be an Aspergers trait. My partner is exactly the same, he sleeps with the radio on and I hate it. After years I got him to agree to turn it down low but he often (deliberately) forgets, when that happens and I ask him to turn it down he launches into a nasty tiraid of explatives and abuse. If I respond to this it just turns into a full scale argument, or rather him screaming at me. It is very very hard to tolerate this. My partner is just about to start undergoing specialist CBT with a Psychologist who specialises in Aspergers and also Social Skills Training amongst other things. He is lucky enough to live in London with access to the best Behaviourial Genetics Clinic at the Maudsley. The problem is that it has taken almost 5 years to get the funding approved! I hope it helps him considerably because although I know that a lot of this is outside of his control it is extremely difficult to live with someone in a situation like this. Personally, if his upcoming treatment does not give him the help he needs I know that I will not be able to deal with it any longer and I have been with him for almost 20 years. Sadly, I know that I will have to leave because my own health has been destroyed over the last 5 years with the stress. You really need to get your husband tested and hopefully treated because, negative as it sounds, this kind of relationship can be so destructive to you. I wish you the best.

  6. Solomon says:

    So, here I am leaving a VERY late response.
    You recommend many many ways to manage a relationship with an argumentative aspie, and I applaud you for your suggestions.
    It does, however, lead me to think that you have NO IDEA what it is like LIVING with this type of person. WHAT AN ENERGY DRAIN! Constantly pandering to someone who won’t change. And I can hear you say “Can’t change.” But I have seen my ASPIE son be very responsive to those he wants something from. Everyone else can cop whatever attitude he wants to dish out. It drives me bananas! Somewhere there is a choice that ASPIE’s make to be responsive or argumentative and this choice factor is often overlooked by aspie experts. Not good enough I say. And I say this because it deprives the ASPIE of the opportunity to change, to recognise they CAN be responsive. And it leaves the responsibility for the relationship squarely on the shoulders of the NT – too hard!

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